Judy Szumlas

Judy Szumlas

AFPBP-11

Judy Szumlas

Karen Musgrave

9/21/07

Nancy O'Bryant Puentes

Naperville, Illinois

Kim Greene

Karen Musgrave (KM): This is Karen Musgrave. I'm doing a Quilters' S.O.S. - Save Our Stories interview. Today's date is September 21, 2007. It is 2:50 in the afternoon, and I'm interviewing, do you go by Judy?

Judy Szumlas (JS): Yes.

KM: Judy Szumlas. Judy, tell me about your quilt, "Shards of Memory."

JS: "Shards of Memory" is a quilt I made for the Alzheimer's Exhibit, "Forgetting, Piece by Piece. I made it because my mother has moderate Alzheimer's disease. The quilt is made with the Arabic Lattice pattern and it has triangular spaces with bright colors. I used a tie-dye fabric which I thought was kind of like the brain. It reminded me of the brain because of the way the colors were in a large starburst. There are these colorful shards or triangles, with colorful starbursts and then blue, plain bright blue, where the memory loss is and then, you have another shard where there is a thought or remembrance in the bright starburst colors, and then another blue shard, they, are all going in a circle. Then the quilting is just the meandering pattern, which also reminded me of the brain, and the way that the mental process is, it is just very tangled and intertwined and no thoughts seem to go in a direct route. That is why I call it the "Shards of Memory."

KM: Did you plan this out ahead of time?

JS: Yes I did. I found the pattern on the internet and Marsha Hohn gave me permission to use her pattern for my quilt. I'm not a very knowledgeable quilter so I thought I couldn't just make something up, because I had only made two or three quilts before this one. I was not able, well I mean I didn't have any confidence that I could make something without a pattern, and so that is why I went on the Internet. Even finding about the Alzheimer's quilt project, "Forgetting, Piece By Piece" was an accident. I was on the Internet looking for patterns because I had made my very first quilt for St. Jude's Hospital. Each summer they collect quilts to give to their sick kids. I had made one for that, and I decided to make another one. Not for St. Jude's, but another quilt. Quilting started because my mother has Alzheimer's, and my sister and I Share in taking care of her. When it is my time to have her, I found it becoming very difficult because if she doesn't see anybody she thinks she is alone so she starts yelling for you and wandering around looking for you. For her piece of mind and for my sanity, I started quilting in the family room, were she could see me. I had started watching the quilt show in the morning, Alex Anderson on HGTV, and before that I had, and I still do, do stained glass part time. But I do that in my garage and my mom isn't really able to come with me to the garage, so I can't do that when she is with me. So as I was watching the quilt show, I thought, that is just like stained glass, you cut pieces and you put it together. I think I can do that. That is how I made my first quilt. So, back to while I was looking for patterns on the internet, I came across Ami Simm's website and it talked about making a quilt for this Alzheimer's exhibit, and not really realizing what it was going to evolve into, I thought maybe I would try doing that. So that is why I found the Arabic Lattice pattern, and chose tie dye fabric with the big starburst and the plain blue fabric sewn into what looked like shards of thoughts and memories to me. That was the evolution of my quilt.

KM: Is a machined piece?

JS: Yes.

KM: You machine piece in the living room with your mom?

JS: Yes. I had gotten one of those Steve Flynn frames for my birthday, well I told my boys I wanted one of those, and they were nice enough to buy one for me. Actually the first quilt I did with his frame, was the one I entered for the Alzheimer's "Forgetting, Piece, by Piece" Exhibit. I decided to do the meandering pattern, because it was easier for one thing, and I'm very inexperienced in machine quilting. [laughs.] I'm surprised I even had enough nerve to even try using that frame on the exhibit quilt. [laughs.] I had done machine quilting on others quilts, but not using his frame, so I have done it both ways.

KM: Which one do you prefer?

JS: I kind of prefer without it, but since I [laughs.] I begged my sons to buy me this for my birthday I thought well maybe I better use it more often. I have a few baby quilts made, I have some nieces expecting, and I think I will try his frame again, on those. I think it is easier to learn to use his frame on smaller ones, than bigger ones. I just did a quilt for my niece and I did do it without the frame. Mostly, because for each blank square, I was doing different machine quilting patterns and I didn't think I could do that using the frame. However, I like that frame because then you don't have to pin the quilt top with batting and back, and that [laughs.] saves a whole lot of time.

KM: What does your family think of this quilt and being in the show?

JS: They are very proud of me I hope. [laughs.] My sons were very surprised, about this whole thing. Well I was actually too, when my quilt got accepted. I was very surprised, when I got the email and I said, 'oh my gosh.' My sons aren't home anymore, they are grown, but my husband was home and I said my quilt was accepted in this exhibit thing. I wasn't even quite sure what I had even got into. [laughs.] Since then it has evolved into CDs, books, and many quilt shows. I have shared the CD with my family and a group of my lady friends. I am Catholic and we have a rosary group that meets once a week, and we say the rosary and then we have cake and coffee and I brought the CD for them see and it has passed through all of those women. I have to take the book now because there were some women who don't have computers and so they didn't get a chance to see it. My youngest son lives in Pomona, California, and they had a quilt show in Ontario, which is very close to where he lives, so I emailed him and told him the dates and I said you go and see mom's quilt. [laughs.] He did and he even emailed back pictures. He took his little camera and emailed back some quilts that he thought were fantastic and he said he met some women there and told them that this was my mom's quilt. [laughs.] So he was very proud. My oldest son lives in Cincinnati, and the quilt was in a show in Dayton, not Dayton in Columbus. Columbus is about 2 hours from where he lives and because of his job, he was not able to get to the quilt show at that particular time. He has seen pictures of it, but he hasn't seen it in the real flesh. [laughs.]

KM: They are always better in the flesh.

JS: Yes and seeing the whole exhibit. My youngest son said it was really very, very nice. He was very impressed with it. I made several small quilts for the priority quilt auction, and I told them to watch the internet because they were going to be on auction and I wanted to buy them, or at least bid them way up. [laughs.] However Ami took them to Houston, to the quilt show there.

KM: He never saw them?

JS: No, so I made two more and then I forgot to tell them what month they were going up on auction and they were gone again. [laughs.] I guess I have to make a couple more. Make them bid.

KM: She said, I think she is saying that she has four hundred quilts to take to Houston to show. I think that is what Ami said.

JS: I guess that is a really large quilt show.

KM: Yes, fifty thousand people go to international quilt festivals.

JS: My first quilt show was the Nashville one and my sister and I went down. I said to her, 'Do you want to go with me? I'm going to see my quilt and blah-blah.' I was going to help Ami white glove. So she came with, because it was being held at the Opryland Hotel. We both enjoyed the show and the Hotel. I went to the Paducah one this last year by myself because she had other commitments. I took a few classes there, and found them helpful. I think I would like to go to the Houston one, since it is suppose to be so big.

KM: The first time I went it is overwhelming. It is sensory overload, there is just so much.

JS: I thought the Nashville one and the Paducah one was almost sensory overload. [laughs.]

KM: It is all in one place. It is all there. It is wonderful. If you have an opportunity to go there, I strongly suggest you go.

JS: I will some day.

KM: What was it like white gloving?

JS: It was very emotional. I didn't realize how emotional it really would be. When you start telling your story over and over to these different people, and then I met people who have just the saddest story, even sadder than my own, and then we are both crying, it was very emotional. Most people really liked the exhibit. I heard some, and it was usually younger women who said, oh I don't want to read that stuff, it is too sad, and they would walk on by. I thought, 'Well prepare yourself, because life is not happy all the time.' I think that is just youth.

KM: We don't get to choice who gets Alzheimer's.

JS: No, and they apparently have not been touched by it yet, and since they were younger, maybe their parents were younger and therefore, they hadn't been touched by it, or their grandparents apparently didn't or whatever. They just said, 'oh that is too sad,' and then go on by. Just looking at all the quilts up close and all the thought processes and the different ideas and the different expressions of what Alzheimer's meant to them or their loved ones that was really inspiring and interesting to me.

KM: Do you have a favorite quilt from that exhibition?

JS: The favorite one is because of the quilting and of course it's Diane's.

KM: Diane Gaudynski.

JS: Yes. I have several of her books. I saw her on the quilt show, so then I got one of her machine quilting books before I machine quilted my very first quilt, and read some of her instructions and stuff. Since then I have become a little more knowledgeable as to who is very good in the quilt world. I looked at her quilt and thought, will I ever be able to machine quilt like that. [laughs.] There are so many that I like that I don't know if I have a favorite. I like the "Sundown" [Beth Hartford's quilt.] one, I like the ballerina ["Unforgettable" by Tammie Bowser.], trying to remember them all, because I haven't really looked at the book recently. They all have certain aspects that I thought were great and true to Alzheimer's, the fading pictures and all that, because that is how mom is, she doesn't know who my sister and I are, we are just people who take care of her, and she, well she is fading, she is going downhill now. Before she had Alzheimer's she always did crossword puzzles and read romance novels. We used to go to yard sales and buy stacks of them and take them to her. Even after she started with Alzheimer's she would do the crossword puzzles. She would copy the words from the back to the front and it would keep her busy for hours on end. It was great. [laughs.] Then for a while she would kind of make mistakes but we didn't care, but now she doesn't even do that. She will color, well she will scribble sometimes. She likes music, especially Polkas, we are Polish, or children's albums too, nursery rhymes or Ring Around the Rosy, and some old songs. You are my Sunshine, when I sing that oh she tries to sing it with me. I don't know why she likes that song so much, but it is something that she likes and she will even try to sing it with me, where she doesn't for a lot of other things. She needs help dressing now, but she can feed herself, but she doesn't really know what food is, I mean she tried to eat some buttons that I had on the table when I was sewing. I said, 'No, no mom not food put that down". So you kind of have to keep an eye on things like that. The very frustrating part about caring for someone with Alzheimer's, is their forgetfulness.

KM: What are your plans for when the quilt comes back to you?

JS: I don't know, I hadn't even thought about that. I don't really know if I will just hang it up in my home. I think maybe I probably will. I thought about donating it to the Alzheimer's Association, but I think I would rather have it, and just hang it in our home as a reminder and a memory.

KM: What are your favorite techniques and materials? Is this typical of work that you do? Do you like to do a lot of piecing?

JS: Yes, I have tried appliqué, on some of those little Priority Quilts. However, appliqué is not my thing. I have done it and it was kind of fun, but I could never do like a Baltimore quilt with all that appliqué all over it. At the quilt show it was very funny, my sister went with me, and they had this huge beautiful Baltimore quilt, and that was her favorite in the whole show. I said, well Marge, sorry, you will never get one of those from me, because I am not a person that likes to appliqué. Pick out a pieced one and I will make it for you. Appliqué is not quite my thing, but I do like piecing. I like quilts with motion, and I just bought a book from the Quilters' Society that has instruction on getting motion in your quilt. You start with a square and then using this same block it changes a little bit as you cut each block a little more at a different spot so that it looks like there is motion. That is something that I might try this next time. I don't know, I've got so many quilts in my head that I want to do, I've got my projects all lined up. I don't know when I will get to them all. We are redoing our kitchen and my husband put some cupboards up for me and I have green depression glass, so because I want them show, I'm doing some stained glass with clear glass for those doors. I have to work fast because my mother is with my sister right now, so I'm able to work in the garage and I've got one window left. Hopefully I will get that done soon. I have a senior daycare around us which is wonderful, Mom goes on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, which is a godsend, because I can take her at 10:00 and pick her up at 4:00, and it allows you to clean the house, do my stained glass or mow the lawn, or whatever, because she really can't be left alone much anymore. Now that the weather is changing I can get back to my sewing. We live on a farm and I'm a vegetable and flower gardener, so all summer I have been outside, so now it is time to get back inside and go through my fabric and see where I'm at, and what quilt to start.

KM: Have you thought about doing stained glass with fabric? A lot of people do.

JS: I did see a gal on the quilt show that did the stained glass quilts with the black bias. I would just as soon do stained glass and then quilting separately. I think the stained glass quilts have a totally different look and, it looks pretty, but I could do that with glass, so I would rather do something else with the fabrics.

KM: It is interesting that you are the second person that I interviewed that is a stained glass maker and a quiltmaker, and she also doesn't, she keeps them very separate.

JS: Right. They are similar in that you are using pieces all the time, but I don't think I will ever do that. I shouldn't say 'never' but I don't think I will. [laughs.]

KM: Do you belong to any quilt groups?

JS: No I don't, but a gal in my rosary group does and she has invited me to join, but with mom it is kind of hard to have commitments and meetings, so there are limited things that I do outside of the house.

KM: How often do you have her? You said you trade off with your sister.

JS: Now it is every other month. When we started it was three months at a time because she could dress herself and if I had to go somewhere and leave her for a few hours you could. As she began to need more care, we went to every two months, and now since she requires pretty much total care, it is one month at a time. That is where we are right now. Mom will be ninety-four in November and my husband says she will outlive us both, my sister and I, [laughs.]. This is a burden also for our husbands, because when we have her, it is difficult to go shopping, or to dinner or a movie. During the week we can go out to lunch etc. while she is at day care, but the weekends are difficult. We even attend church separately because I don't take her anymore because she babbles and people look at her weird and I just feel, I don't want her exposed in that manner. I know that she wouldn't want to be, I think people don't understand what is wrong a lot of times when people just babble. She is pretty strong physically. My sister and I both have two-story homes and she climbs the stairs. Now with a little more assistance, you have to watch her because she is a little more tottery, but she is still strong enough to climb the stairs. During the winter months the weekends can be long, but that's when I can get some of my sewing done. [laughs.] She can surprise you now and when a whole sentence will come out, but they do have trouble with expression, and a lot of times I know what she is trying to say, but it comes out all garbled. Of course she loves her sweets.

KM: My mother-in-law, food was not a terrible, it was sweets. Sweets are.

JS: Apparently that is part of Alzheimer's and I hadn't realized that.

KM: That was her entire life. My mother-in-law always liked sweets.

JS: That wasn't my mother. I mean she would have chocolate or cake once in a while, but she wasn't a big sweet eater, but oh now, she can't get enough of it. Even her food sometimes, if she doesn't eat it I will put Splenda all over it and she will eat it. Squash or green beans, Splenda is on everything and she will eat it then because it is a sweet green bean. But so far she has a very good appetite.

KM: Since making the quilt, have you learned more about Alzheimer's? How has the project impacted you?

JS: I think I am realizing that it touches more people's lives than I thought. You know, you think you are the only one doing this, only one burdened by this disease, and now we see that there are lots and lots of people. Luckily Mom didn't get it until she was older.

KM: How old was she?

JS: In her eighties. You know, in retrospect, we realize that it started sooner than we thought. You never see it coming and I guess I was feeling really guilty about it, because I'm a nurse and didn't catch it earlier, but the last twenty years I have worked in surgery and all my education was geared toward surgery. I knew what Alzheimer's was, but you just don't see things in your loved ones, nobody tells you about the slow sneaky way it comes upon you and in retrospect, my sister and I are saying, yeah that didn't dawn on me. Mom lived in Florida in the winter time near her sister, and they would drive up in May and stay with my sister and I until October.

KM: You are from Iowa. I guess I didn't say that.

JS: Yes I'm from Maquoketa, Iowa. My sister and I, well our whole family was born and raised in Chicago, and but I went to Iowa by way of Kentucky, [laughs.], but that is a long story. Anyway, so my mom went down to Florida every winter and her sister and her lived only a block away from each other. They knew they couldn't live together because my aunt was very particular and had to have things in a particular way and my mom was more laid back, so they knew they couldn't live together, but they lived close by. They lived a couple of blocks apart and they would go over to each other's house for supper and play cards and Yatzie and stuff like that. Our nationality is Polish and they were raised with the Polish language, so some days they would just speak Polish to each other and they would laugh and think that was really funny, so they had a good time down there together. My aunt since then has died, and I said it was a blessing in a way, because we took my mother to the funeral, but she didn't know who that was. So it was kind of a blessing, because it would have been very devastating for her. I lost my train of thought. [laughs.]

KM: It is slow though, it is a slow progression.

JS: Yes, how it just crept up. I would call and start talking and then all of a sudden she would say, 'Well who is this?' And I would say, 'Well it is Judy.' I thought, 'well my sister and I sound the same when we are on the phone, we don't realize it but people have told us that. And she goes, 'Judy, oh yeah, Judy.' Then we start talking again. Thinking back now, you start thinking about things like that. It has been ten years since we have brought her up, sold her home down there and brought her up to Illinois. My sister was her primary care taker at that time because I was still working. I would take vacation and take care of her when my sister had a trip planned.

KM: I think it is wonderful that she is still living with the two of you.

JS: Well, we keep thinking we can do it while we are able to. We like to travel together a lot of times, so we do put her in a nursing home on occasion. We see such a change when we go to get her, so we are very hesitant about putting her in a nursing home. Of course, and I don't blame nursing homes, they have forty of them to care for, and only two aides and a nurse. She doesn't get the twenty-four hour care, and the attention and individual conversation that she gets at home. They are too busy to try to get her to act like a person and bring her out of her stare. I noticed that more, that she is starting to just stare off, going into her own world. She used to be able to watch TV and kind of follow some things, but now she very rarely does. It is just difficult to get her involved in any activity, you get exhausted some days trying to keep her occupied and then you finally just give up and let her sit on the sofa for a while and just stare, because you just can't do it all day long. That is why sewing is an outlet for me. Then I'm there with her and if she wants to babble or get up and walk around, I am there to monitor her movements. Sometimes she tries to help me cut fabric, which is not fun. She is holding it up and I say, put it down, or she is trying to straighten it and she is pulling it and I'm cutting it and I go no, no, no. [laughs.] Some days when she is trying to be helpful it is a little, [laughs.] frustrating, but most times she will just let me sew and just watch.

KM: Why is quiltmaking important to you?

JS: It gives me something to do for one thing, and I have always been a person with a lot of energy, so I can't just sit around for a good part of the day. Sometimes I can be kind too meticulous. My husband keeps says I'm too fussy, I make a square and I don't like it, and I throw it out, and he will say, what is all this wad on the floor. He will look at it, and he says, I think you are being too picky, and he will throw it down and walk away, but he doesn't care. [laughs.] The days are kind of long. So sewing is an outlet for me, and I think it is kind of creative. [laughs.] Very creative, especially when you go to the all of the quilt shows and see some of the quilts and the creative ideas these women have. I guess I'm kind of lazy, because I will just take a pattern. [laughs.]

KM: I don't think that is lazy.

JS: Now that I have made a few more quilts, I'm kind of more interested in doing my own, and that is why I tried doing my own thing when I made the little quilts.

KM: Like the priority quilts?

JS: Yes, those are my own design. Sometimes I use my own design, but use an established block. Like the quilt I just made for my niece, I made all guardian angels, I made the Ohio Star and then I put an angel in the center of each star and I made a different border, so I guess it is not copying a total quilt. I will use a certain block or something and then I will make my own design. Sometimes they don't come out quite like they are supposed to. Like the one I made for St. Jude's, it was all ballerinas, but all my squares were different sizes, so that was new for me. I had to do the different things in there to make it square so that I could put a border around, but I thought it looked nice, and my husband thought it looked nice too, so I said okay. [laughs.]

KM: What kind of quilt do you typically make?

JS: So far the largest I have made would be a large crib size. I haven't made a full sized one yet, that is my next project. We found some relatives in Poland and my sister went to Poland three years ago and found them, my father's, mother's relatives. So I was thinking, we are going back next September, how nice if I can make a quilt for them. Right now I have the Rosetta Stone language CD, I'm trying to learn Polish, or at least be able to pick up a bit of the conversation. My sister's friend Irene will be going with us and thankfully she speaks Polish. I am going to make a full size bed quilt that is going to be my biggest project so far, so we will see how that comes out.

KM: Do you plan to make a quilt to sleep under?

JS: Oh yes, when my sister and I had gone to Italy a couple of years ago and I had taken a picture of every Cathedral and every church that had beautiful floors, and I took pictures of the Sistine Chapel floor, so I thought that would be kind of cool to have a quilt from the Sistine Chapel floor on my bed, so that is my ultimate, but I haven't started that yet. [laughs.] That is the ultimate thing.

KM: What color are you going to make it?

JS: The floors were like greens and oranges and stuff. But I don't think I particularly like that. I am, I think, more neutral, I thought beiges and whites and off-whites would be. I'm not sure.

KM: This quilt is very colorful. You are talking orange and yellow and blue.

JS: Yes, I have made very bright ones. I would love to make the Wedding Ring in the browns, the beiges, and the whites. I saw one in a book and I thought that was beautiful. But my sons, I don't know if they will ever get married, but if they do, [laughs.] I thought I would make that for them. I have to get a little more experience under my belt, those look really tough. Just all that piecing and curves, scare, me, I don't know, I will leave that for a while. The floors, the one we saw in Florence had smaller blocks and they got bigger as they went around in a circle and that is why I bought that book on prospective things, you start with one square and change it slightly, and that is kind of what this is. So I don't know. There are so many patterns. The one I thought I would make for my bed actually wasn't from the Sistine Chapel; it was from St. John Lateran. It has three circles, like intertwined wedding rings, but I'm sure it was meant for the Trinity. I thought it would be nice for our bed, man, woman and God together in a marriage. I don't know. I have all these things in my head, but I plan on making one for my bed from one of those floors, but I don't know which one yet. [laughs.]

KM: I think it is great to have plans. It is wonderful.

JS: I am going to make one for my son's bed too, actually both sons. I have patterns in mind. My youngest son, it is just going to be a geometric thing, but my oldest son saw one with African faces on it but, I don't know that might mean some appliqué.

KM: It sounds like appliqué.

JS: I'm not sure, so [laughs.] we will see. I might be able make something like that.

KM: Maybe a wall hanging.

JS: Yes.

KM: Something different for the bed. What do you thing?

JS: It might be good that I do a small hanging first. Of course I wouldn't have to appliqué the whole thing, but certain squares, and I could probably tolerate that, I could do that. I just, I just couldn't do a Baltimore quilt with tons of appliqué, I don't think so. [laughs.] Not yet anyway, maybe I will change my mind as I get older and more sedate and sit more, I might consider that.

KM: This has been wonderful. Believe it or not it is already 3:30.

JS: See I can yak and yak.

KM: I think that is wonderful. You can yak away all you want. Is there anything else that you would like to share before we close?

JS: I'm just amazed now when I meet people how many quilters there are. A woman from church who just died recently and I knew her daughter so I had gone to the wake, and they had quilts all around. She had been a quilter all her life and had made beautiful quilts, of course they were all hand done, which I really think is wonderful. I have arthritis in my hand and I had to give up crocheting and all that, because certain motion causing pain in my hands. I like using the machine. I have been surprised at how many women do quilt. I have met different women, through church, friends etc. who are quilters. When I go to the quilt shows I am amazed at how many young women there are. I think it is wonderful that there are so many young women coming to quilting and using there creativity. I met two really young women in Paducah. They happened to be staying at the same hotel where I was staying. I met them at breakfast and got to talking to them. Just the creativity of these women, it is just amazing what they can do with fabric, and their ingenuity, I just think it is just great. I think about the pioneers, and how women had to use their ingenuity for keeping their families warm. I guess women are pretty darn awesome. I know there are men quilters, I don't mean to negate their work, but it is basically a women's world and some of their strengths are really amazing in their quilting.

KM: I think it is pretty amazing, I mean there is an exhibition that was put together, traveled to educate and raise money. I think it says a lot about the quilt community.

JS: It is amazing that Ami has been able to raise the money that quickly, and how giving people are, and the stories that are all intertwined with all of these quilts, and then the people who come to see them with their stories. It is just really amazing. It is not only beautiful but it is informative, and brings to mind a good cause. Hopefully a cure will come soon, I keep hearing that they are trying new medications and some that are suppose to help dissolve these starbursts in the brain. We can only pray that for us or for our children, they will have more help than what medications they have now. I must say, the medications are essential, because Mom would probably be, I don't know what by now, because she has been on medication pretty soon after the symptoms appeared. We saw an improvement for a while after she was started on them, but now it is a slow, slow downward slope.

KM: She is not as young as she once was either.

JS: No, no. But she still, it is amazing, my sister's grandchildren will run to my sister and give her a kiss when they arrive, my nephew will say, 'Don't forget Nana.' 'Oh, yeah, hi Nana,' and they will run up and give her kisses and they are not afraid of her because she does act crazy sometimes, babbles, and will yell at them because she is always afraid they are going to fall, get hurt, she is overly anxious when the kids are around. She gets very upset, but they don't seem to mind that at all. It was funny, and not funny, one day my sister had the grandkids over and they were playing with Playdo, and her oldest one, Emma, who is about seven said, they call my sister Mimi. 'Mimi, Nana is eating the Playdo.' [laughs.] My Mom used to touch the tip of a pen to her tongue when she would start writing and that action is still with her. However, now she usually uses crayons and sometimes she has a colored tongue. It's a good thing crayons are non toxic.

KM: It might be a habit.

JS: Yes, that is one of her old habits that still remains with her. I know she doesn't realize that she is even doing it.

KM: I would like to thank you for driving here to Naperville to allow me to do this interview.

JS: It wasn't a problem since I was coming to St. Charles.

KM: It is so wonderful. We are going to conclude our interview. It is now 3:36.