Carolyn Gorham Guest

Carolyn Gorham Guest

VT05819-027

Carolyn Gorham Guest

Nola Forbes

Karen Alexander

East St. Johnsbury, Vermont

Nola Forbes

Nola Forbes (NF): My name is Nola A. Forbes and today's date is July 14, 2010 at 10:06 AM. I am conducting an interview with Carolyn Gorham Guest in her home in East St. Johnsbury, Vermont for the Quilters' S.O.S.-Save Our Stories project. We are doing this through the American Heritage Committee of the Vermont State Society Daughters of the American Revolution. Carolyn is a quilter. Tell me about the quilt we photographed today.

Carolyn Gorham Guest (CG): The quilt we photographed was one that I worked on with the Kirby Quilters [group encompasses Kirby, Vermont region.] for an anniversary gift for my parents. It was their fiftieth anniversary. My father had grown up in Kirby and they continued to live and be active in Kirby events over the years. The group decided on fabrics. I decided on how it was going to be put together and designed the layout of the quilt. Because my family had seven members in it I cut a papercut of a circle of seven people holding hands. Two men and five women, as in my family. That was used as a template for quilting all of the white alternate blocks. The blocks were set in a pattern that created the appearance of stars around each of those appliquéd or pieced blocks. After quilting the seven people in each of those white spaces, I quilted cross hatching quilted in all the rest of the border white spaces. It's one that my parents enjoyed. They chose not to use it, so it was shown for best. That's the background on that quilt.

NF: How long did it take for that quilt to get finished?

CG: The quilt top was made before the fiftieth anniversary. The quilting took several years. It was a project. When I asked my mother if she wanted it tied or quilted, she looked at me and just said, 'Well, of course, if you'll quilt it. Quilted!' [laughs.] So I began the quilt project. On several occasions several friends from the Quilters came and helped me quilt for quilting evenings. I would sit in the evening and quilt when I had the opportunity, but it was a several year project.

NF: A wonderful result. Why did you choose this quilt for the interview over others of yours?

CG: I've made more baby quilts and wallhanging quilts than I have full-sized. I've always participated making blocks and helping to quilt on Kirby Quilter quilts. I have only one other full-sized quilt that I've worked on and that's been a twenty-year project. It's still in progress. [laughs.]

NF: What do you think someone viewing this quilt might conclude about you?

CG: I like detail.

NF: How do you use this quilt now?

CG: I would love to have it on a guest bed but I have cats. So I have to keep it put away but I take it out when my sister comes or to show.

NF: This quilt was shown recently?

CG: Yes, it was part of a Gallery exhibit at Catamount Arts. [in St. Johnsbury, Vermont.] It was a group show of Kirby Quilters and another quilter Thea Storz, of Kirby.

NF: What are your plans for this quilt in its future?

CG: In its future? It will stay here for quite a while, hopefully. Eventually one of my nieces or nephews, or grand-nieces or nephews will have the honor of taking care of it and enjoying it.

NF: Tell me about your interest in quilt making. At what age did you start having an interest in it?

CG: I grew up sewing as a 4-H'er. [Burke Mountain 4-H Club in Kirby, Vermont.] Embroidery and textile arts were always of interest. I probably helped do some piecework in high school or early college. But it was during the college years that I used to spend time at my grandmother's and help her sort through things and work on things. She would give me odds and ends of leftover quilt blocks to do something with or take care of. She would tell me about the quilts that she had. That's when I really began to be interested in it. One of the projects that she gave me to finish was a little satin block. A large satin block. She had a perforated quilt pattern that we pounced the chalk on. I quilted the quilting onto the block and made a pillow out of it.

NF: About how old were you at that time?

CG: I was in college, so it was early college. She passed away in 1974 so it was before then.

NF: What was her name?

CG: Flora Belle Gorham is what she went by, but Ward was her maiden name.

NF: How many hours a week do you quilt, would you estimate?

CG: It depends. I go through seasons of quilting. I will work on it for days on end and then not for months. I just finished a couple of blocks for a couple of projects we're doing in the Kirby Quilters. I tend to do more blocks for Kirby quilt projects. Or if there's a baby that needs a quilt. My big appliqué, unfinished one tends to be when the mood hits. Or when the weather's right I take it out and work on it.

NF: This spring you were working on finishing some quilts?

CG: That's right. I did. My mother had made six or so quilts and a couple of quilt tops. She had seven grandchildren. She passed away this spring and we gave each of the grandchildren one of her quilts. Which meant mending one which had damage and putting a back on another quilt top for another option. The ironic thing is that I ended up with one of her quilts because one of her granddaughters didn't want a full-sized quilt. She wanted the wall quilt that covered the back door in the living room to keep the cold out. [laughs.]

NF: While we're talking about your family, would you mention other family members who have made quilts, that you know about?

CG: My Mom. [Shirley Fisher Gorham 15 Oct 1921 to 14 Feb 2010.] Her mother made utility quilts. [Eda Hood Fisher 1898-1972.] Hers were pure for [if.] you need something for warmth, you sew cloth together. On my father's side, his mother did some but not a lot of quilting. Her mother and aunts did quite a bit. Then his father's mother, Emily Olivia Humphrey Gorham, did a lot of quilting and so did her grandmother. Her grandmother made a wool quilt in her early years of sewing. That would be in the 1820's. I have that quilt.

NF: The name of that quiltmaker?

CG: It was Hannah Ives Johnson Humphrey. [daughter of Benoni and Olive (Wilcox) Johnson born 21 Dec 1797 Farmington, Connecticut, died 13 May 1864 Burke, Vermont.]

NF: Was the wool raised at the family farm?

CG: Whether it was raised in Kirby? No, it would have been Burke [Vermont.] where she lived. She moved to Burke in 1825 after marrying Erastus Humphrey. She was from Litchfield County, Connecticut. Whether she made it there and brought it up or made it here, I'm not sure. I do know that she continued to spin and weave. The [oral.] family history is that she made the fabric for the quilt.

NF: Have you ever made any fabric yourself for any of your projects?

CG: In college I took a weaving class and I made fabric for some table runners. I had to make something that was going into a wearable. I have a shirt that has my hand-woven overshot weave. Blue and white weave.

NF: What about other friends that are quiltmakers?

CG: Other friends? Also back to family members. My sister Esther Gorham Mazzini has done a lot of quilting. My cousin Phyllis Gorham Wood was another quiltmaker. Friends? All of my Kirby Quilter friends. Then I was an exchange student to Poland in 1976. [through the 4-H International Four-H Youth Exchange- IFYE.] My host brother has married a quiltmaker. [Teresa Tarach.] She raised sheep for quite a few years. They used the wool to card into quilt batts. She would make single cloth. The quilting was the design. Hand quilt these wonderful five-pounds-of-wool comforters. She still makes those.

NF: Wonderful. What is your very first quilt memory?

CG: Oh, on the coldest nights of the winter being able to have that wool quilt on us.

NF: That was in what town?

CG: That was in Lyndon. [Vermont.] Apparently in the early fifties, when my grandmother was in Montpelier [capital of Vermont.] serving in the Legislature, she bought some yard goods over at the Norwich Wool Factory to put a new back on that quilt. The original back was worn out. She put the new back on it and by the time I inherited it the upper edge was pretty frayed.

NF: So that quilt has been with you for some time?

CG: [laughs.] Yes.

NF: How does your quilt making impact your family?

CG: That's a good question. Over the years I've made small projects. Table runners or different things with quilting on them. One of my sisters has an embroidered wool jacket that I made, that's lined. I'm trying to think. No, it's not the jacket, it's an embroidered vest that I made using quilt blocks of my grandmothers. Then I quilted it. It was the quilt blocks.

NF: What vintage? What era were those from, would you say?

CG: The late 1800's. Yeah.

NF: You've shown your quilts at different places?

CG: Um hmm. I've shown quilts at the Caledonia [County, Vermont.] Fair. We've had the Catamount guild show. I had one that I sent to the Vermont Quilt Festival one year. I've taken them to Poland to show. I actually made a Crazy Quilt vest for my host mother in Poland once that I left there. And a quilt top for the gal that makes the quilted comforters.

NF: Tell me if you have ever used quilts to get through a difficult time.

CG: When I started The Unfinished Quilt we were renovating our house. We had two rooms that were not torn out. I cut papercut designs based on traditional Polish papercuttings and appliquéd those so they're single color appliqués onto a white cotton. I worked on those whenever I wanted to get out of the construction zone. That was very helpful. [laughs.]

NF: That spanned quite a few years?

CG: Yes, it did. Maybe what I need is another construction zone to finish it. [laughs.]

NF: Maybe.

CG: But then again, this last spring after Mom died. Working with washing her quilts, handling those and taking care of those was real helpful for working through the loss of her.

NF: Tell me about an amusing experience that has occurred from your quilt making.

CG: An amusing experience. Oh. [pause for ten seconds.] I don't know.

NF: Or a story that comes to mind.

CG: I remember when we lived in our apartment, for several summers taking a Kirby raffle quilt before the show. When it still needed to be finished. Going up on Kirby Mountain and sitting there in the nice summer breezes and quilting.

NF: In the meadow?

CG: In the meadow. [laughs.] Just sitting up there. There's another. What else was I going to say about quilting? [pause for ten seconds.] There's an amusing sewing story. At my mother's. Because I was one of four girls, and my mother sewed, sometimes every table and space would be spread out with patterns and fabric and whatever. One summer day when my younger sister and I were sewing, we had a sewing machine set up on the dining room table and one set up out on the front porch. We were working at it. Mom was making bread. They were moving things from place to place. We got the bread done and everything put away for dinner, which was midday. My father bit into a roll that had a common pin in it.

NF: A common pin in his roll?

CG: Uh-huh. It was one of the few times I've ever seen him make specific requests about, [both laugh.] because he usually was an easy-going man. He wanted the sewing separate from the food.

NF: So that was another definite impact?

CG: It sure was. Oh, yes. At that time, Lotus-Duvet Comforters was just starting up their business. [in East Burke, Vermont.] My older sister Wanita was helping them make down-filled duvets. I was helping design duvet covers. [laughs.] We were just in mass production with sewing. Probably all three of us girls and Mom were sewing and cooking that week.

NF: Are those the same fabric cutaways that you are using in your Unfinished Quilt?

CG: Yes. Actually, the cutaways that I'm using in the Unfinished Quilt are probably a more current time. At that time, they were using the imported cotton Indian paisleys for their covers. Those were all like working with silk. They were such fine gorgeous, gorgeous colored cottons. They were just wonderful fabrics to work with.

NF: What do you find pleasing about quilt making?

CG: It's like that quilt making and embroidery and paper cutting all allow me to do detail work and just get lost in it. I really like to do that. It's like going for a good walk in a pasture. I can sit and get lost in it. Or you can connect with people through it. There are both opportunities and both are very special.

NF: What aspects of quilt making do you not enjoy?

CG: I don't enjoy machine piecing as much as I do hand appliqué and hand quilting. [both speak.] What I do, I do well. Unfortunately my hands don't allow me to do a lot of all three of those things in the same time frame. You know, close together, I guess is the best way of saying that.

NF: Would you talk about the art and quilt groups you belong to?

CG: In addition to the Kirby Quilters, I'm a member of the Guild of American Papercutters. Actually, I'm the Vice President currently. I've been a member of the Papercutters Guild for fifteen years now, maybe. I belong to the Northeast Kingdom Artisan's Guild, Catamount Arts, the Vermont Folklife Center, places like that.

NF: Are there some quilt shows that you have helped with in the past?

CG: Yes. The Kirby Quilt Shows were my introduction to quilt shows. [held in Kirby and Lyndonville, Vermont.] Then I've helped with the Vermont Quilt Festival at different times. [when it was in Northfield, Vermont.] Those are the two major ones. I helped hang the Catamount art show. I've helped with different arts. Kirby Quilt Craft Shows.

NF: At Christmas time.

CG: At Christmas time when we used to have that one. With the quilt shows.

NF: Have advances in technology influenced your work in quilt making?

CG: Not a lot. [laughs.] I still prefer the treadle sewing machine and the straight stitch sewing machine. When I'm looking for something for background information or inspiration, sometimes I'll use the computer and Internet to search or just to look at things. But like with clothing making, I always would look at a pattern not for what the colors of the fabrics pictured on the pattern, but for the pattern design. I do that with quilt making as well. I tend to look at the pattern and think about my own colors. It's purpose for that. It's always been a thing that I've enjoyed.

NF: You've already talked about some of your favorite techniques. Would you talk about your favorite materials to use in quilts?

CG: Cottons. And wools. I'd love some day to make a wool quilt. What little I've quilted with wool, it's wonderful to work with. I've appliquéd some with down-proof cottons. Now that I've used them for quite a while they work easily. They're finer woven so it's a little stiffer fabric to work with. I don't care to use the adhesives. I like the natural feel of appliquéing. Years ago, my sister-in-law came across an old Pennsylvania quilt that had a soft-edge appliqué that was a catch-stitch instead of the buttonhole stitch. I've used that technique a lot on my appliqué. Especially with the designs I've cut from papercutting designs to keep the detail and the fabric that's fine-woven. It really gives a nice soft edge. I'd love to teach a class on that this summer. I've taught at the Elderhostel [and Quilt Camp associated with Lyndon State College, Lyndonville, Vermont.] for quite a few different summers doing that type of appliqué.

NF: What about the types of battings you prefer?

CG: I like the cottons and the wools. The polyester ones work well for tying, but for hand quilting I just like the way the needle goes through the other fibers.

NF: Would you describe your studio upstairs? That place where you spend creating some time.

CG: We tore out the wall between a bedroom and an attic space in the garage and made a large space for both sewing and papercutting. It's a Cathedral ceiling with a north window and a south window, so I have good light and it's just a comfortable place to hang out. I have enough space to spread out. It enables me to use a cutting board and rotary cutter or place things out. At one time I had a design wall when I was using a small bedroom. But I grew up using the dining room table, so it's a treat not having to clear off a kitchen or dining room table every time I want to compile and go find everything to put it together to sew, but to have it fairly compact.

NF: Tell me about the floor.

CG: My floor. My husband decided on a tile. A linoleum-tiled floor. We had decided on three colors. The predominant color was going to be green. We picked out three other shades to go with it. I went away for a weekend and he laid it out. It looks like a quilt design. Just a generic quilt block design in two separate places on the floor.

NF: It's a very pleasing design.

CG: Yes.

NF: Tell me how you balance your time.

CG: That's a tricky one. I can get caught up in things and not notice the time is gone. I taught school for many, many years. When I was teaching, I had to be real careful with how I used my time so that I was getting my school work done and still had time for things of interest. Kirby Quilters stayed on that list of 'I'm going to do this.' That and the 4-H Foundation. I've since semi-retired from teaching and it's harder to balance my time. But the list is still long of things to do.

NF: You mentioned teaching. Did that ever include teaching sewing or quilt making?

CG: Yes. I've done some 4-H leading where I've taught some sewing. Was a 4-H Leader in sewing when I was back in high school. I've taught workshops on quilting, and I continue to teach as anyone is interested. Appliqué or quilt making. Mostly appliqué and pattern design, because papercutting makes really nice designs for both appliqué and quilt designs.

NF: As you are designing quilts, what kinds of things come to mind? How do you approach designing a quilt, since you don't use a design wall these days?

CG: I spread it out on the floor in my studio. [laughs.] Hope the cat doesn't run through.

NF: How do you formulate some of the ideas?

CG: Graph paper. This spring when I was trying to decide what was available for Mom's quilts. I knew I needed one more quilt. I found a stack of Maple Leaf pattern quilt blocks that
Mom had made but were not put together. I took graph paper and plotted out two or three different ways of combining them. Sorted through fabrics to see what I had that could be used and what fabrics Mom had had that could be used to make it more her quilt. In the end came up with a very nice design. At that point, my sister found one more quilt so that I didn't need to finish another one then.

NF: What do you think makes a great quilt?

CG: It's a balance of color and space. I know in looking at Mom's quilts, there were several that I never really appreciated until I sat down and really was looking at what she had done to come up with her random pattern. It always looked like a random block patch quilt but in reality it was based on a set repeat of fabrics in odd-shaped rectangles to come up with her squares. In a good scrap quilt that doesn't look like you've gone out and bought blending colors, but somebody who really knows how to use lights and darks to shade. It really shows. The last time I went to the [Vermont.] Quilt Festival, I remember just spending hours with my friend Terry looking at quilts. What we liked about them and what we didn't and what caught our attention. Usually it was fine detail or really good use of color and space.

NF: What makes a quilt artistically powerful?

CG: Being a silhouette papercut artist, I look for that positive-negative aspect. Some art quilts have a lot of busy-ness to them and others just bring you right into the quality of the work. It really varies. Quality fabrics, good use of color, contrast really make a difference from my perspective.

NF: What makes a quilt appropriate for a museum or special collection?

CG: That's an interest question, because we're doing that discussion right now in our Papercutters Guild. We've just opened a Papercutting Museum and discussing what we will accept and what we won't. As much as you would like to have everyone represented, there's not enough storage and display space. I think that it's partly the story that goes with the quilt. It's partly the quilt itself. You want examples of those premiere quilts. You want examples of those everyday quilts. Then you need the ones that people can handle. I think part of quilting is the tactile component. In a museum display where you can't touch anything or especially when you're working with children, you want stuff you can touch and get a feel for. Last winter, Anne Brown and I took a bunch of quilts up to the Burke School. They were doing a small quilting project with a math class in first grade. The eyes lit up when they could feel the textures and hear the stories that went with them. Some of those will be. A couple of those might be museum quilts and some of them won't be. Okay?

NF: So a good teaching example is important.

CG: Is an important component. Exactly. Sometimes some of those ones that are coming apart are good teaching tools because you can see inside. See how it was made and what it was filled with or the lack of, where it has disappeared. How it changes over time. On the wool quilt, one of the nicest things on that is you can still see fragments of its original back where it's come apart at the top. As well as the back that my grandmother tied on and then you can see the wool inside in some places.

NF: On that quilt the original was quilted and then the replacement back was tied.

CG: She tied it so the ties go to the back side. But did it on the corners of the blocks.

NF: Was that all a solid color quilt?

CG: No, It's a Bethlehem Star with alternating quilted blocks. It's a red and green.

NF: That was one that was documented [both speak.] as part of the Vermont Quilt Search?

CG: Yes, it was. It was also exhibited at the Vermont Quilt Festival with their Wool Quilt Exhibit that they did one year. I also have some wool hand-woven sheets, that were made not by the same person, but by a friend of that person, from another family.

NF: They came down to you together?

CG: The sheets were acquired from the family in East Burke in the last twenty years. They wanted the Historical Society to have the best ones and then they sold the remainder of them at a yard sale. My mother and I were there to pick up the Historical Society ones and bought the remainder of them.

NF: A good acquisition.

CG: Yes. [laughs.] There was a hand-woven blanket in that group of things, too.

NF: That was also wool?

CG: Yep.

NF: What makes a great quiltmaker?

CG: I think there are two kinds. There are the ones who just have a love for working with the fibers and doing their thing. Then there are the ones who do the precision work. [laughs.] The precision worker is the one I really admire. I know some people who do the other and make fun things and really love it.

NF: Whose works are you drawn to and why?

CG: I like antique quilts a lot. Things that are done in miniature, or like Baltimore Album type quilts. Of course, Anita Shackelford's name comes to mind because she's one of the few people I know the name of who does cut paper appliqué and Baltimore Appliqué type things. If you put the names in front of me, with the work I'd pick them out. Names and I don't stick together well.

NF: Which artists have influenced you? Either in the quilting area [both speak.] or the sheep shear cutting?

CG: The paper cutting. I would say in both realms, the traditional older artists. I love Great Aunt Lucy's Crazy Quilt. [pause for four seconds.]

NF: What was her full name?

CG: She was Lucy Cobb Morse.

NF: Where did she live?

CG: I believe she grew up in Danville. [Vermont.] She lived in Massachusetts until she was widowed, then she moved up to Kirby with my grandmother. She didn't have children, so she stayed there for the remainder of her life. Who are some others? Papercutting wise, it's a lot of the Polish papercutters. I think with the quilting it's the antique quilts. I can't think of a particular one.

NF: You like to use traditional designs when possible?

CG: Yes. One of the best things that happened with the papercutting was one summer I went back to visit in Poland and I had worked really hard for several years reproducing Polish papercutting and making Polish papercuttings. I was becoming really good at it, I thought. My hostess took me to visit an ethnographic specialist at the Torin museum, with some of my papercuttings. The lady looked at them and said, 'Oh, these are really nice, but they're not Polish.' [laughs.] I was like, 'Pop! There goes that thought.' I mulled over it for a while. Then I realized they weren't Polish because I was putting in things from what I was seeing at home and my Vermont farm heritage. The more I observed Polish papercuttings and Polish rural settings, the more influence I saw between the two. I began to use that concept with my papercuttings of using my heritage and what I'm seeing day-to-day to influence what I am cutting out of paper. That was probably what led me to cut a seven people circle. [for the 50th Anniversary Quilt featured.]

NF: You've created papercuts for many of your quilt blocks for Kirby Quilters' projects.

CG: Yes, exactly. When I need an appliqué and sometimes the Kirby Quilters, when you need a quilting pattern. 'Carolyn, can you cut us something?' [laughs.] I cut dinosaurs for a baby quilt I remember, that we appliquéd. [both laugh.]

NF: Those artists come from a wide span.

CG: Exactly. It's incorporating things from day-to-day life. There's a little bit of the 'Eat it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without' thrown in there. You've got to. If you don't have something instead of going out to buy it, figuring out what you have that can make it. Not make it work, but make it really work.

NF: How do you feel about machine quilting vs. hand quilting?

CG: It's awfully flat in the end. It's very practical. It's a much nicer look than just tying a quilt, especially if you have very nice fabrics and have put a lot of work into it. It's a good medium, middle place to go in between, to play around with. But not on my agenda to master. I'll still work with the hand stitching. That's the other part. When someone is unable to do the hand stitching, it will give them the opportunity to continue with that art.

NF: So, it has its place.

CG: Yeah.

NF: Why is quilt making important to your life?

CG: Friendships and working with fabrics. The connections with the past and future.

NF: Are there any other ways you think your quilts reflect your community or region?

CG: The appliqué blocks that I do for Kirby Quilters, many times do. For this year's raffle quilt, I stenciled a [maple.] sugar house and appliquéd scenery around it. Barns and different things that we've incorporated. Covered bridges. All of those things end up in them.

NF: You grew up in the town known for covered bridges?

CG: Yes, in Lyndon. Not in Kirby, where my father grew up. Driving through a covered bridge for many years. All of that.

NF: What do you think about the importance of quilts in American life?

CG: They were important part of every household, especially in the years when things were lean and materials were not readily available. To be able to re-use what you had. In years past it was an extremely important part. Currently, it is just one of those things that brings a little life and love into a home, made by someone special.

NF: In what ways do you think quilts have special meaning for women's history in America?

CG: Oh, their stories. If those quilts could talk their stories, the book shelves would be full. [laughs.] We were talking about the frustration. I could imagine that many of those women doing a lot of stitching [laughs.] and being very productive at it [laughs.] when things were hard. Not having really available materials and having to piece pieces.

NF: To repurpose clothing?

CG: Repurpose clothing. Exactly.

NF: How do you think quilts can be used?

CG: In addition to on beds and in decorative piles, they work wonderfully on walls. The one my niece wanted was made out of polyester squares and rectangles. It was just the width, just a little wider than the door with insulated batting and a wool back. Just to keep the cold out.

NF: Does she live in Vermont?

CG: No. She lives in New York City. But she wants to hang it. She's hung it on the wall.

NF: It still gets cold there.

CG: Who knows? In Europe, in the castles they always hung tapestries to help keep the cold out. Noise control and all of that stuff.

NF: How do you think quilts can be preserved for the future?

CG: I think the documentation, like what you're doing, is important. Actual rooms for both family ones and in museums. The art of quilting is continuing to teach our young people and including young people. It's one of the special things that Kirby Quilters has done is to encourage young people to participate. Not work that being a perfectionist little group or saying if you can't do it you can't. So what if the quilt stitches aren't perfect. Somebody worked at them and we need to honor that.

NF: What has happened to some of the quilts that you have made? Where have they ended up?

CG: The baby quilts with different individuals. Some baby quilts and a quilt top that I took to Poland. The quilt top I gave to a sister for Christmas one year as in unfinished quilt. She found it recently about twenty years later.

NF: Where does she live?

CG: She's in New York. Binghamton. She hasn't finished that quilt top.

NF: Carolyn is there anything quickly that you would like to add to this interview?

CG: Keep on quilting. [laughs.]

NF: I'd like to thank Carolyn Gorham Guest for allowing me to interview her today as part of our Quilters' S.O.S.-Save Our Stories. Our interview concluded at 10:51 AM on July 14, 2010.

[interview concludes.]